Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT_ZIP/spacedig/V09_3/V9_318.ZIP/V9_318

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 89 05:16:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #318

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 318

Today's Topics:
      Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?
            UFO Technology Puzzle Revealed
            UFO Technology Update
            Re: Re^2: Black hole trolling
        Re: Success with cold fusion reported
      Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?
              Re: Teleoperation
               Bored of space?
            Re: Fusion ---  a Second Look
      Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?
     Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 06:38:57 GMT
From: phoenix![e-mail]  (Matthew B. Kennel)
Subject: Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marvin Minsky) writes:
>Chapman remarked that "the repulsive forces from the
>positive charges on the two nuclei normally require temperatures
>of 50 - 100 Million degrees to overcome...".
>
>Here is a thoery of what is happening -- IF it is happening.  Thermal
>fusion requires a very high temperature because at lower speeds each
>proton will scatter the other before colliding, if they are slightly
>misaligned. As I recall, the cross section in normal matter is about
>10**-10 (because a nuclear diameter is about 10**-5 of an atomic
>diameter).  However, if the protons are perfectly aligned, the fusion
>temperature is quite modest -- I think of the order of kilovolts.  But
>normally, there is no way to align them well enough at low energy
>because of the uncertainty principle.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that you need to have the
center-of-momentum energy greater than the Coulomb barrier (q1q2/r)
at r =aprrox 2 fermi (= 2 x 10^-15 m!!).  I don't think that
exactly "head-on" and almost exactly "head-on" will make that much
of a difference.

  It could be that if the protons
>(that is, deuterons) were suitably bound in a larger solid-state
>matrix (e.g., a crystal, as in the Mossbauer effect) then the
>alignment could be better because of a higher effective mass.
>

Effective mass usually only comes into play in the band-theory of
electrons---because of the exclusion principle the electrons can't pile into
the low lying energy levels, thus the highest states have energies way above
the ambient temperature (50,000K vs. 300K).  But, in metals at least, this
means 1eV instead of 1/40 eV.  Even if there were enough H's for a similar
thing to happen, I don't think there would be near enough to get over the
coulomb barrier for the nuclei in any obvious way.

>But I can't figure out how to get the required kilovolts into that
>solution with electrodes.  Maybe they simply use a very fast, high
>voltage pulse?  Why is the palladium heated?  Perhaps somehow to
>reduce the capacitance at the interface to permit a large enough
>electric field.

I don't really know.  They claim that the palladium "traps hydrogen".
In the lattice structure are some spaces where hydrogen can collect.
It's attracted into these spaces by the electric potential.  Perhaps
there's some electronic screening effect that lowers the coulomb
barrier tremendously?

Matt

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 08:25:10 GMT
From: amdahl!nsc![e-mail]  (andrew)
Subject: UFO Technology Puzzle Revealed


            UFO TECHNOLOGY

Consider the properties of the following object. A superconducting current
loop is created inside a shape formed by the slicing of a cube, with a
square hole in the centre. It's thus a square, thin, single-turn coil.
Create a rectangular superconducting, hollow box of depth greater than half
the coil (nondiagonal) dimension. Embed the coil inside the box such that
the coil and box main axes are orthogonal, and such that the lower half of
the coil is inside the box. Put a lid on the box (in some way) so that the
lower half of the coil is now totally enclosed, and the lid does not make
electrical contact with the coil (insulated slots, or whatever).

Apply an external magnetic field to the system parallel to the coil axis.
Is there a net translational force on the coil? Two sides cancel, while
the third side produces a net force. Therefore, in the earth's magnetic
field a decrease in weight will be observed (unless you have it upside
down!). Wow.

Notes
1. Superconductors are perfect shields of magnetic fields; ergo
2. The bottom half of the coil is "invisible" to the external field
3. The flux in the coil is quantised and may not change; ergo
4. Energy is supplied from the external field.

Who needs fusion? ....come fly with me, let's play among the stars....
============================================================================
    DOMAIN: [e-mail]
    ARPA:   nsc!logic![e-mail]
    USENET: ...{amdahl,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,sun}!nsc!logic!andrew

    Andrew Palfreyman                408-721-4788 work
    National Semiconductor    MS D3969        408-247-0145 home
    2900 Semiconductor Dr.
    P.O. Box 58090                    there's many a slip
    Santa Clara, CA  95052-8090            'twixt cup and lip
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 08:27:00 GMT
From: amdahl!nsc![e-mail]  (andrew)
Subject: UFO Technology Update


            CHEAP UFO TECHNOLOGY - UPDATE

Problems were experienced lifting the large Whirlpool super-refrigerator,
as room temperature superconductors could not be found, so Deuterium fusion
was harnessed instead using dissipative conductors - good ol' copper.
The same old box and coil was used, but due to the enormous power:weight
ratio of the "Mr. Fusion" unit, liftoff was still achieved, despite the
lack of Meissner effect assist. Now the energy came from the power source,
not the external field. This was a relief to owners of compasses. The hot
magma circulation was gradually slowing down, and the North Pole now lay
somewhere in Tuscaloosa.

Assuming:        B (earth's mag)   = 1E-5 wb/m**2
(round numbers)        g (earth's grav)  = 10 m/s**2
            r (spec res Cu)   = 1E-8 ohm.m
            d (density Cu)      = 1E4 Kg/m**3

We need, for liftoff,     B*I*L > M*g,    which cranks into
            W/M > 1E8    watts/Kg (no form factor dependence)

The original fusion unit provided about 20W/cc (2E3 watts/Kg : Pons &
Fleischmann) but enhancements of order 1E5 better power:weight ratio
did the trick. Performance in space with the solar wind gave
acceptable acceleration levels even with the Mk I fusion unit.
                ...on Jupiter or Mars...
============================================================================
    DOMAIN: [e-mail]
    ARPA:   nsc!logic![e-mail]
    USENET: ...{amdahl,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,sun}!nsc!logic!andrew

    Andrew Palfreyman                408-721-4788 work
    National Semiconductor    MS D3969        408-247-0145 home
    2900 Semiconductor Dr.
    P.O. Box 58090                    there's many a slip
    Santa Clara, CA  95052-8090            'twixt cup and lip
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 20:51:44 GMT
From: sgi!shinobu![e-mail]  (Scott Henry)
Subject: Re: Re^2: Black hole trolling

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Cracknell) writes:

> [e-mail] (Scott Henry) writes:
>
> >This is incorrect. The definition of the event horizon is the point at
> >which photons cannot escape to *infinity*. This in no way implies that
> >they cannot cross the event horizon, they just cannot make it very far
> >past it (depending on how deep they started). The bonds between atoms
>
>    This is incorrect.  Consider a photon inside the event boundary.   It
> crosses a little way outside the boundary, is then outside the boundary, and
> can escape as well as any photon that started outside the boundary.   Thus
> contradicting your definition of the event horizon.   Hawking showed that
>
> Chris Cracknell

My statement might very well be incorrect (it's been many years since I've
studied this stuff), but yours is not a good argument against it. A more
precise statement is that any photon "escaping" from at or "below" the
event horizon would gravitational red-shift away to nothing before it
reaches infinity. That is, no matter how much energy a photon has as it
crosses the event horizon (ignoring for the moment if other aspects
prevent it from happening at all), it will all be "lost" "fighting against
gravity" (to be rather anthropomorphic about it). But then, maybe I'll
just flame myself for being to lazy to go get out my old textbooks and
look up the real answer :-) ^2. BTW, all this discussion has only applied
to Schwartzschild (non-rotating) black holes. The problem is much more
complicated with Kerr (rotating) black holes, since, among other things,
there is not "a" event horizon. I'm going to have to stop here before I
really have to flame myself!

--
---------------------
              Scott Henry <[e-mail]>
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 06:49:28 GMT
From: pdn!rnms1![e-mail]  (0000-Alan Lovejoy(0000))
Subject: Re: Success with cold fusion reported

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Meritt) writes:
>I'd say "fire", since fission has never been all that easy to use, and if this
>works like the write up you could put a reactor under the hood of a car.

Does this mean that "Sun" will be putting out a portable workstation that
doesn't even need batteries? :-) :-) :-)


Alan Lovejoy; alan@pdn; 813-530-2211; AT&T Paradyne: 8550 Ulmerton, Largo, FL.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for AT&T Paradyne.  They do not speak for me.
__American Investment Deficiency Syndrome => No resistance to foreign invasion.
Motto: If nanomachines will be able to reconstruct you, YOU AREN'T DEAD YET.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 14:53:39 GMT
From: rochester![e-mail]  (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?

>>Nuclear proliferation may have just become a lot easier...
>
>Only if the thing can be made to explode, which isn't at all clear.
>It doesn't sound significantly more useful for breeding plutonium than
>an ordinary reactor, and reactors are not hard to build if you are not
>too worried about efficiency and safety.

A DD fusion reactor could make neutrons with the release of about 7
MeV per neutron, vs. something like 100 MeV/neutron in a fission
reactor.  A fission reactor will therefore need a larger cooling
system than a fusion plutonium breeder.  A 1 MW (thermal) DD reactor
running for 1 year should produce 40 moles of neutrons, or about 10
kilograms of plutonium if captured in a uranium blanket.  The DD
reactor would burn perhaps 300 grams of deuterium, vs. tons of heavy
water or graphite needed for a fission reactor using natural uranium.

Comments on sci.physics that the Utah people have detected 9 orders of
magnitude too few neutrons is bizarre, and either suspicious (maybe
fusion is occuring only at low power levels, with the other heating
due to some spurious cause) or reason for jubilation, if for some
incredible reason they are doing fusion without making much radiation.
Or, perhaps there was a confusion between the demo experiment at the
press conference and the higher power experiments.  Fleischman did
warn people not to try to replicate the experiment before they read
the paper, apparently because of radiation dangers.

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1989 14:35-EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Teleoperation

Hmmm. I just thought of another thing to be dealt with, from real life
experience.

You are driving up a hill at a steep angle when you suddenly loose some
traction due to unstable soil on one side. Your vehicle starts to slew
left. If you don't react INSTANTLY, you will turn sideways far enough
that you will roll the vehicle. In real time it is no problem (usually)
to correct. At the very least you let off the gas and back down
the hill so you can try again.  How do you deal with it in 2.5 second
delay?

I really don't think anything but slow moving operations on level
ground will be possible until we have quite sophisticated AI systems
that can handle such emergencies first and tell you about them later.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Mar 89 09:07:38 PST
From: [e-mail] (Frank J. Nagy, VAX Wizard & Guru)
Subject: Bored of space?
X-St-Vmsmail-To: LBL::"[e-mail]"

> The reason?  Americans bore easily.  Voyager is flying by another
> planet?  Big deal.  We already saw Jupiter and Saturn, what's so
> exciting about another planet?  The shuttle is taking off again?  So
> what?  We've proven we can get back into space.  It flew in September.
> (*I* know that was a different shuttle.  Joe Average American doesn't
> know nor care.)

Is it really that Average American get bored easily?  Or is it that
the people in charge of our broadcast industry and network news
are bored by anything not absolutely new or sensational?

On the other hand, I still get a tear in my eye when I look up at
a full moon and remember than 12 humans have been there and back...


= Dr. Frank J. Nagy   "VAX Guru & Wizard"
= Fermilab Research Division/Electrical and Electronics Dept/Controls Group
= HEPNET: WARNER::NAGY (43198::NAGY) or FNAL::NAGY (43009::NAGY)
= BitNet: NAGY@FNAL
= USnail: Fermilab POB 500 MS/220 Batavia, IL 60510

------------------------------

Date: 26 Mar 89 06:19:17 GMT
From: yamnet![e-mail]  (/999999999)
Subject: Re: Fusion ---  a Second Look


CBS evening news just carried a story of what they called a "Major
Breakthrough", it concerned cold fusion. Anyone know any details?
The news cast was a best weak, and had no real details. I am skeptical,
shocked, and a little frightened (chemical fusion? bathtub nukes?)
Edward Teller was interviewed, saying he saw this a breakthrough.

Anyone know any details at all?  What's the deal?


--
Greg Noel [Gn] Delphi Information Systems, Westlake Vlg, Ca.
"Better Living Through Chemistry" -Old Dupont Slogan

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 16:01:12 GMT
From: rochester![e-mail]  (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?

[e-mail] (Matthew B. Kennel) writes:

>Effective mass usually only comes into play in the band-theory of
>electrons---because of the exclusion principle the electrons can't pile into
>the low lying energy levels, thus the highest states have energies way above
>the ambient temperature (50,000K vs. 300K).  But, in metals at least, this
>means 1eV instead of 1/40 eV.  Even if there were enough H's for a similar
>thing to happen, I don't think there would be near enough to get over the
>coulomb barrier for the nuclei in any obvious way.

There are a class of compounds called "heavy fermion" compounds that
were all the rage among superconductivity researchers before the high Tc
discoveries.  In these compounds, some electrons have enormous effective
masses - as much as the mass of a proton.  I was wondering if such
an electron would also have a proportionally smaller "effective wavelength",
and therefore be able to make deuterons come closer together, much as
a negative muon does in mu-cat fusion.

I would like to know if Pons and Fleischman have done a control with
ordinary water.  If they were giving a press release, they really
should also have handed out preprints.  It's not as if someone else is
now going to steal the credit, and if it's all a mistake their names
are s**t no matter what they do now.

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 06:24:39 GMT
From: pdn!rnms1![e-mail]  (0000-Alan Lovejoy(0000))
Subject: Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
>There is, however, a rather large fly in the ointment.  There are two
>places on this planet you can get platinum-group metals in quantity.
>Both of these countries could become the super-OPEC of the 21'st
>century.
>
>One of them is the Soviet Union.
>
>The other is South Africa.

There is also a device called the "fusion torch," which can transmute
elements (platinum from mud, if you like).  Of course, this requires
very advanced controlled-fusion reactors...

>We *really* need access to the asteriods, which have plenty of platinum-
>group metals.

Then we also need either very advanced AI, very advanced biotechnology,
or artificial gravity: It appears that low gravity fields shut down the
human immune system in a way similar to the AIDS virus.  Humans will NOT
be spending any appreciable percentage of their lives in space until we
can fix our immune systems so that they tolerate low gravity,  or until
we can provide gravity artificially.  As things stand, a career as an
asteroid miner would not last long...

>Mike Van Pelt                 Video 7              ...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvp
>"... Local prohibitions cannot  block advances in military and commercial
>technology.... Democratic movements for local restraint can only restrain
>the world's democracies, not the world as a whole." -- K. Eric Drexler


Alan Lovejoy; alan@pdn; 813-530-2211; AT&T Paradyne: 8550 Ulmerton, Largo, FL.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for AT&T Paradyne.  They do not speak for me.
__American Investment Deficiency Syndrome => No resistance to foreign invasion.
Motto: If nanomachines will be able to reconstruct you, YOU AREN'T DEAD YET.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #318
*******************